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  • #40716

    Phil in Cinci
    Participant

    I am almost finished with my Black Belt Training, and have become increasingly interested in making this field the focus of my career.  I would never become a consultant, but I think becoming a Master Black Belt and finding a position or series of MBB jobs supporting launch of Six Sigma (3-4 years per) would be a great way to finish my remaining 15 years of employ.The field itself seems sound.  Math-based data-driven problem solving with profitability at the core.  Nothing arguable there.  What bothers me, truthfully, is this forum.isixsigma seems to be the “authoratative” site for discussion of Six Sigma topics.  As such, I would expect to see topical interaction on matters of importance to the success of the method and and its practicioners.  Often, instead, I find childish blather from “Stan” and the like.  If I was considering a career in the medical, legal, or other similar professional fields of endeavor and saw that their premier forum was cluttered with such “one-up-you” and “up-yours” and “you’re an idiot” comments, I would wonder.  And so I wonder.My BB instructor told me not to bother going here to get an occasional answer to a valid question.  He said he tried to encourage some civility for about 10 days last year, but gave up after things got too stupid. (do you know Mike/Miker?)  I couldn’t believe that it could be a total waste of time, but admittedly must agree.  He sold me on Six Sigma, but I’m sad to say I might just stay away if this is the best that the SS community can do for a forum.  So.  Why should I label myself a disciple of Six Sigma when I have to then also become a an apologist for this site.  Can anyone encourage me?  Phil 

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    #126984

    Guido
    Participant

    You are wise beyond your years.   You should not become a Six Sigma practitioner.    This site is truly all there is to the field.  
     
    The field is comprised of centuries old statistical tools, an arcane scientific problem solving methodology, irascible and intractable old change agents, sarcasm, blather, and the isixsigma communication tool.  That’s it, that’s all there is, you are observant and very much on-target.  
     
    That Stan guy+3, Darth, BTDT, Mike Carnell, Richard Butler, AndyU, Ken, and HFChris, are all schizoid personas of AB and reading too much of this blather (as you have so rightly called it) could cause your pissant little brain to implode and other more worthy fields would potentially lose the value of your unique future contribution.    Run away, run away while you can.

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    #126985

    Mike Walmsley
    Participant

    Phil,
    I laud your courage and am in agreement with you.
    I’ve been trying to ignore the barbs and provide assistance regardless.

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    #126997

    AB
    Participant

    Phil in Cinci
    Don’t be a disciple. But don’t draw conclusions based on hearsay either. Let me share my experience of isixsigma.com
    First, collectively, between Stan, Darth, BTDT, Mike Carnell, Ken, Andy U, HF Chris, Chris S, CT; they have probably answered 90% of the questions. The rest 10% are either unanswered or are irrelevant.
    Second – The questions range from being totally stupid to very complicated. The questions that invite an aggressive response are those asked by lazy people who do not care to check even this site before asking the question OR by people who follow up a stupid question with a rude reply that insults the expert who responds.
    Third – Some of the discussion that is aggravated is usually amongst the active experts I named above. Nothing wrong with taking a strong stance on a subject you know well, right?
    Like any random sample you would pick from the world, the sample of experts here has people as polite as BTDT and Mike Carnell and some who speak their mind such as Stan. But regardless, they add huge value to the community.
    Do your research on the site and make your own call what you would like to do.
    Good Luck.

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    #126999

    BTDT
    Participant

    Phil:Please, please stay with it. Using a data driven methodology for solving business problems is far superior to the alternative. The people related soft skills of Six Sigma make it very different from the traditional fields of project management or operational management.I lurked on this site for over four years before I started posting. I looked at the vitriol, the mud slinging, self promotion, petty kindergarten squabbles and decided to try to ignore the worst of it. I have been the victim of the popular sport of ‘consultant baiting’ when I responded to people with what appeared to be a misunderstanding, but turned out to be an inflated sense of entitlement. For the most part people offer pretty good discussion.Different forums will gradually evolve to have different personality types as a summation of everyone involved. Don’t make the mistake of painting everyone with the same brush. We get all kinds of people on this site, and it is difficult to understand where someone is coming from when some of the messages are short and ambiguous.For example, it is difficult to distinguish between people who have been put out to dry by a poor infrastructure and people trying to get the forum to do their homework for them. It has got to be the forum equivalent of spam. We have some people using the forum during their certification exams. A few months back one of the instructors of a training course recognized a student posting homework questions to the forum. The student didn’t even disguise their name or the questions. If you know a reliable way of telling the difference between the two groups, please let us all know.There are some topics that will predictably have people throwing buns at each other – the 1.5 sigma shift, who invented Six Sigma, the benefit of 4*1 week training versus a 4 day crash course, certification, etc. Even though it is sometimes pretty entertaining, some of the veterans tire of the people who ask the same questions over and over without even a cursory investigation of the HUGE backlog of articles and discussion over the years.Another problem is that fact that all discussion goes into the single bag of ‘forum.’
    I am also a member of a quantitative finance forum that splits the forum topics into student, technical, books and references, jobs/career, brain teasers, off-topic (a mixed bag). It helps sort out the deeply technical questions and discussion from the Friday night drinking crowd sorting out where they will meet (The ‘Random Walkers’). This might not be a bad idea in the future.All people need a place where they can blow off steam every now and again. Much of the banter that goes back and forth is between people who have known each other for years. Their communication style has been defined over the years and is perhaps not as bad as it appears. Some interchanges are fictional accounts between some well-known and very colourful Six Sigma personalities. There are quite a number of them.I some sense, the job of an MBB is rather lonely and it is good to have a place where there is at least a sympathetic ear for their gripes. Can you think of a fellow BB who really should be in another job, but got placed next to you because they have been in quality for their entire careers and have nowhere else to go? I don’t think you’d talk about it at work, but you have an anonymous place to vent if you wish. You have already used this forum to vent, even if it about the forum itself.Try to ignore the slings and arrows and don’t read or reply to the postings you find offensive. If you find a truly offensive posting, report it to the moderators and they will rapidly remove it.Think of what you would really like this forum to be and help make this a reality.1) Read the initial postings and assess the problem.2) Construct a response to the initial posting and check with the poster to see if this has helped with their question.3) Try your best at reading any criticism. There may be a valid point in there somewhere, sometimes there may be nothing at all – ignore the latter ones.4) If you see the same type of problem cropping up repeatedly and can offer some help based on your own experience, then write an article and submit it to the site. It should go to Mike Cyler or Frank Ducceschi.I hope you come back, you sound like you will be with us for some time.Cheers, BTDT

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    #127004

    Darth
    Participant

    Phil in CVC,
    AB pretty much sums up the essence of the Forum.  As one who was mentioned let me provide some of my own thoughts.
    1.  If you actually dissect the posts where a less than positive response is elicted, you will see, as AB points out, it is usually as a result of a stupid post.  Yes, there are such things.  There is some obligation on the poster’s part since many of us take this Forum seriously and provide a lot of help, both online and offline.   The offline time is not visible to the Forum but I personally have helped a number of people and have spent a good deal of personal time with only a thanks as the expected reward.
    2.  The accumulated knowledge and experience of this Forum can’t be matched anywhere else so if used wisely, can be a great source of information and guidance.
    3.  Note, that even the simplest question will be answered properly if presented in a clear and lucid fashion.  A recent post such as “can someone tell me about hypothesis testing” will be responded to in a negative fashion because it is obvious somebody is too lazy to do their own research and I, for one, will not waste time trying to make up for that laziness.  The same for students who shortcut the educational system by posting homework or test questions and expect us to answer them.
    4.  True, sometimes the threads deteriorate into silliness but, hey, give us a break, we like to have a little fun now and then.  The great thing for me is that I have established a number of personal relationships offline as a result of this Forum.  This has allowed me to develop a network of people I can call upon for help and likewise provide to them.  It’s also a great source if I get fired again…always a distinct possibility in this business.
    5.  Why preclude the option of becoming a consultant?  Lots of positives to the job.
    6.  Your point regarding civility on the Forum is the trickiest to answer.  Granted, some of the responses can be challenging and aggressive and true, sometimes they approach personal attacks.  Despite never having initiated a personal attack, I have been the recipient of a number of them.  I believe you need to distinguish between the two; challenging and aggressive vs personal attack.  I agree that the second really doesn’t have a place on this Forum. The first should be one of the distinguishing characteristics of the Forum.  Being a MBB and/or consultant often requires a thick skin.  You will be challenged by management and stakeholders who are being threatened by what you do.  If you can’t take the heat in an anonymous written format, how are you going to handle it face to face with somebody out to undermine you.  Had one of those yesterday.  Some dumbaxx marketing executive got all over the BB and said some of the most outrageous, idiotic things I have heard in a long time.  I wanted to reach across the table and throttle her.  Instead, we took an aggressive and challenging stance focusing in on “Do you have the data to support your assertions?”  “If you are so certain you understand the customer, show me the data?”  “If you are so certain in your knowledge, why is your product lagging every other one in the business?”  “If it is your job and not a SS project, why haven’t you done it over the course of three decades?”  That’s part of the job and many of the challenges that are posted in response to comments or questions are designed to get people to think and be prepared to defend a position. 
    7.  You might also see a negative response if someone asks a question, it is answered by multiple posters and then the original poster proceeds to argue.  What would you do in a live situation?  Posters here usually respond the same way, with a brush off.
    8.  Finally, as AB pointed out, many Forum members are lurkers who are quick to complain but reluctant to contribute.  Since they aren’t paying anything for this service, have access to great knowledge and experience yet give very little back, it’s tough to take their complaints seriously.  Many threads are opinion based rather than technically based and as the saying goes, “everyone has an opinion”.
    I hope that I have shed a little light on the workings of the Forum and that you will make use of it and contribute to it.  You sound like a mature, thoughtful person and I look forward to learning from your experiences.

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    #127005

    Darth
    Participant

    BTDT,
    As usual a well thought out response, thanks.  Not to be picky…but wait, isn’t that one of my styles???  Isn’t it Mike Cyger or has he sold out?

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    #127006

    Stevo
    Member

    Phil,
     
    I have been helping the; lazy, desperate, confused, exasperated, ignorant, naïve and stupid people navigate thru the pitfalls and sharks of this forum for a while now.  If you want my help, just ask.
     
    Stevo
     
    Motto “Helping the stupid since 2005”

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    #127008

    CT
    Participant

    Wow it must be Friday or Blue moon or something, everyone is being nice today. well kinda, Im sure this will pass
    LOL everyone have a good weekend.
    Little Joke for Friday afternoon
    When President Bush was ask about Roe VS. Wade his response was
     
     
     
    Scroll Down
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    I dont care how those people get of New Orleans
     
    CT

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    #127013

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    WKRP,
    I am gone for a few days and I return to being berated with secondhand information. I have most recently been characterized as “the nice one” but there is a pretty good chance I am the one your BB instructor was referring to as not answering his question (I am holding back on the judgmental adjectives). Ask you BB instructor what his question was and let’s see what type of response he gets now.
    Somehow I think that a person who takes away a resource like this site from their class is definitely putting their ego in front of the classes learning or maybe he just didn’t want you to see how stupid the question was (I’m sorry. I hate it when my fingers just type whatever they want to).
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck
     

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    #127021

    lin
    Participant

    Carnal,
    Read the thread.  I can’t quite understand what your response has to do with this discussion.
    No one was talking to you or about you.  His instructor didn’t say he asked you or anyone on the forum anything (just was disgusted at the response to people who did).  His instructor’s ego is not an issue at this point, but, obviously, yours is.
    Has anyone noticed that this might be a Miker sighting. (see first post)  I thought he was dead.
    Bill

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    #127022

    Murray
    Participant

    The guy has a point.  People who respond to posts on here do two things.  1) make a legitimate attempt to answer the question, or 2) make a legitimate attempt to be a smartaxx. 
    If you think someone made a stupid post it would waste a lot less time (yours and mine) to simply not respond at all, as opposed to spending hours upon hours trying to come up with something funny to say… falling significantly short.
    At some point in time we all were unfamiliar with even the easiest of ideas.  Yes people ask stupid questions.  Yes people should do their own research.  But also, yes you guys should get a life. 
    Continue to post legitimate replys… some of you actually know what you are talking about, but leave the comedy and smart axx remarks to someone who is good at them.  You get paid to do Quality… stick to that.

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    #127024

    HF Chris
    Participant

    Phil,
    Why apologize? If you don’t want to see the ridicule or sarcasm on this site you don’t have to stay. You can get it by asking the same questions in most companies that attempt to change a process (for the good or not). Do you quit your job or do you find a way to voice your passion to make things better? Is this the politically correct way to behave…no, not always.
    Here is a goal for you: Attempt to turn one of the posters or the forum on their standpoint on a process, tool, or business issue that makes them stop and think. I have and continue to learn on this site; hopefully I have helped a few others on the way and have made some outside contacts. The posters, novice or experienced, have been quick to put me in my place if wrong and I concede accordingly. My point is to take the site for what it is worth: discussion and banter. You are not going to solve your problems with this site alone but it may help guide you to the right answer.
    Stay with it,
    Chris
     

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    #127025

    Darth
    Participant

    Nick, as soon as I am in receipt of your check, I will be glad to follow your instructions as to what to do and what not to do.  I am sure other posters are anxiously awaiting their checks as well.  You appear to be a very authoritative kind of guy but unfortunately, I don’t recall posts that you have contributed.  Furthermore, I don’t see how your time is wasted by a poster who attempts, as you say, to come up with something funny to say.  Is there a mandatory “read this or die” box that comes up on your computer?  A number of people have advised that if a thread is not to your liking then don’t open it.  Simple as that.  In most cases, it is obvious when a thread is for amusement or a thread has gone off kilter.  Could you also please advise who you consider to be “someone who is good at them”?  Thanks.

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    #127026

    Murray
    Participant

    Darth,
    ‘as soon as i am in receipt of your check’  ha ha.  good one Darth.  On par with most of your posts.  
    I didnt start this, or say you couldnt post… I’m just pointing out the obvious.  You and others demand that everyone make good posts and not waste your time… we should expect the same out of you. 
    How is time not wasted with all of these ridiculous posts?  If someone asks a question and there are 200 replies… 1 of which is a real answer and 199 of which are ignorant attempts at humor, then my time is wasted because i have to go through all of your posts to get to the one real reply.  Not that this normally happens with legitimate questions, but you never know. 
    I enjoy the message board.  I like the fact that colleagues have a place to assist one another, and some of you (as i said before) do know what you are talking about… Keep up the real posts and real replys… name calling and making others feel stupid is childish. 
    ps.  how does me posting a comment that disagrees with you make me seem “very authoritative”?   you make a comment posting your opinion.  I had my own opinion and posted it, as well.

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    #127027

    Gooseneck
    Participant

    Children!!!Children!!! Children!!!
    If you can’t behave, then ,OH to Hell with it!!!
    Have a nice weekend.

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    #127030

    BTDT
    Participant

    AB:Thank you for the compliment.Have a good weekend.Cheers, BTDT

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    #127031

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Darth,
    Good point – Never seen a cent from either one that I am aware of and obviously one has trouble with reading (missed the Mike/Miker part). I am taking their advice and ignoring them. I am not sure why people seem so concerned with the time we spend on here. I suppose we could do something really productive like watch television?
    I sticking with AB that says we do ok about 90% of the time.
    Take care. Have a safe weekend.
    Regards

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    #127032

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Thank you. You have a nice weekend as well.
    Regards

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    #127033

    Murray
    Participant

    Cause we haven’t posted it means we don’t know anything?
    The bottom line is…
    This is a forum for helping people with questions.  What you do discourages people with legitimate questions from posting on here because they have to worry about whether or not their question is good enough.  Just post a “see previous threads”  or “do some research”.   People would get the point. 
    90% of the time is probably accurate.
     but 10 % of the time is enough to keep a newbie away (what sigma level is that?).  I am not describing myself by any means, but I am sure that there are people who are just getting started that could be helped a great deal by a forum like this.

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    #127035

    JO Club CEO
    Participant

    Nick – relax, Darth has a very fragile ego and he feels better about himself when he puts people down.  He often refers to posting things of value on this forum – blah, blah, blah…he spends most of his time bantering back and forth with his pals Carnell and Stanley and posting “nify” pictures.
     
    Over and out good buddy

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    #127037

    Darth
    Participant

    Hey JO, where the heck you been????  But at least you showed up to this party.  Caught you the other night at your recent gig at the club.  You guys really rocked, man.

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    #127039

    Gooseneck
    Participant

    Here is where hes been,out with this fine lady.

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    #127051

    Phil in Cinci
    Participant

    OK Stevo,
    Interesting offer.  You miss the point.  Regardless of my intelligence, I shouldn’t need anyone’s help “navigating thru pitfalls and sharks of this forum”. 
    Here’s how it could be (call it future state).  People who want to see interactive posts from fellow professionals go here.  They learn from other posts and  post responses to questions when they can help.
    I don’t want your help.  Thanks for the offer.  Just dreaming of a forum that rocks.
    Phil

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    #127052

    Phil in Cinci
    Participant

    Nick.  Exactly.  Thanks.
    Phil

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    #127069

    Mikel
    Member

    That may be the dumbest post I’ve ever seen.
    BTW, if Miker was your MBB, you may want to consider getting competent training.

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    #127077

    Guest
    Participant

    ****

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    #127078

    Phil in Cinci
    Participant

    Thanks, Chris, but I’ll pass.  I don’t have time to jabber with a bunch of keyboards or jockey for bragging rights for the best zinger.  You all have a nice life.  If this is your forum, I’ll wait for the next flavor, next month.  PiC

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    #127079

    Mikel
    Member

    Give Miker my love

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    #127085

    Stevo
    Member

    Phil,
     
    I put you into the “frustrated” bucket, not the lacking intelligence bucket.  I understand that you don’t want my help, but if change is to come, it has to go thru Stevo first.  (Why don’t people get that?)
     
    Stevo
    Title:  Senior Dictator of Six Sigma

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    #127087

    Darth
    Participant

    Hang on Stevo, Dr. Phil and the gang are planning a serious intervention here. 

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    #127089

    Stevo
    Member

    That will be fun!!  I’ll bring a cheese platter.
    Stevo

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    #127092

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Nick,
    “Cause we haven’t posted it means we don’t know anything?”
    I have re-read my post and I am not sure where you came up with that. I am not going to worry about it at all and I want you and your other buddy to understand why. Then I am pretty much done with you because you basically represent a type of person that I have difficulty respecting – even less than a person that put up the dumbest posts. I have been posting here about 4 years and Stan pretty much the same. Darth is relatively new but much more prolific so he is gaining ground. I have never signed a single piece of business from the Discussion Forum because that is not why I spend time here. Stan, Darth, and I all spend time off line with people who are serious about getting some help and again not with the promise of business because most of the people here don’t have signature authority for enough money to book a deployment and are typically already involved in a committed deployment.
    Now you and your buddy sit on the sidelines as spectators and want to pass judgment, which is your right, just as it is our right to judge a question (I assume you are intelligent enough to understand the hypocrisy of your post). Being a spectator is ok. That isn’t my issue. My issue is when you decide to p*ss all over things like a drunken alley cat that become irritating. Why would you possibly believe that you have any level of influence with anyone? You don’t post so you haven’t helped a single person and as Darth put it you don’t pay our rent. You’re a spectator (very much like a Monday morning quarterback – never any skin in the game but lots of criticism) for the most part not willing to step up and take any kind of risk with regards to how a post will be received but you want to criticize the people who are taking that risk even if it is to 90% effectiveness.
    Now lets look at your cute little statement about the sigma level of 90%. Ok, between 1 and 2 sigma. Now if you never posted any advice your sigma level would be unknown. Unfortunately you have chosen to make your debut in this string where you have added no value what so ever. We can now calculate your sigma level and it is zero as is the value of your posts here.
    For some reason you and your buddy have felt that you have the ability to define what happens here on this forum and peoples behavior. As a spectators don’t get that privilege. iSixSigma controls it formally and the people who post control it to some degree. If you want it to change you get involved and make a difference. If you don’t want to get involved then it will be the way it is defined by the people who participate (like politics to some extent – you can run for office or you can vote otherwise you take what happens). When Ken showed up he seemed dissatisfied with posts so he started putting up his advice and seems well received. A much more effective strategy than whining about what you do and don’t like. That’s how life works not just this Forum.
    Good luck.

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    #127097

    howe
    Participant

    Mike, I wasn’t talking to you… sorry for being misleading
    Did you follow the link someone posted to the forum etiquette guide?  Some of us our posting legitimate concerns about the forum and are questioning why a select few of you have decided that this is how the forum should be run.
    Here is an excerpt:
    __________________________________6.  Be considerate to others. It should go without saying that you should treat others as you would like to be treated. If needed, iSixSigma Community moderators will delete repetitively rude, obnoxious and abusive forum posts. Moderators also have the ability to ban users from posting to the discussion forum entirely, but we hope to never use this functionality.7.  There are no dumb questions. Many readers do find users obnoxious if they haven’t made a good faith effort to determine if a similar topic has been previously discussed. For instance, let’s say you’re in India and you want to find local trainers of Six Sigma. Search the forum for “India training” or simply “India” (sans quotes) and sift through recently discussed topics. If you know of an answer to a question that has been previously asked, don’t hesitate to link to a previously answered post._______________________________________
    I have tried to reason with all of you by stating why i think my argument is valid.  You all reply by getting defensive and telling me I have no authority. 
    And people are supposed to feel good about asking for help?
    And then you say  “Why would you possibly believe that you have any level of influence with anyone?”… You have 0 influence with me, therefore I am assuming (to use another of your quotes) “you are intelligent enough to understand the hypocrisy of your post”  
    And that I am “for the most part not willing to step up and take any kind of risk with regards to how a post will be received. ”   Um.. then why did I post, and why am I posting?
    And then “Unfortunately you have chosen to make your debut in this string where you have added no value what so ever”   This isn’t my first thread… 
    And then… “you and your buddy have felt that you have the ability to define what happens here on this forum and peoples behavior”   I’m sorry, what are you doing? 
    Now… if you have a legitimate point… please post it.  If not move on to do what you claim you do best…   help others with your intelligent well thought out posts. 
      I and others have made valid points.  in return you and your ‘friends’ post childish, insignificant, defensive replies.
    If everyone on this board feels the way you Darth, Stevo, Stan, et.al. feel… then why are they all silent on the issue?  Shouldn’t they be running to the defense of their beloved board?  Or is it simply that they agree with us?

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    #127098

    Murray
    Participant

    Before everyone gets on me about posting under the wrong name… the last Mike post was by me.
    Excuse the error….
     

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    #127103

    Claude
    Participant

    Mike/Nick,
    What industry are you in?  I believe I have heard your concerns expressed in the same words somewhere else.   Possibly not.     Claude
     

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    #127104

    Murray
    Participant

    Its Nick.
    All my posts (sans 1) have been under the same name if that is your concern. 
    I currently work in commercial real estate.
    Me, or someone else, it does not surprise me that you have heard these concerns expressed before. 

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    #127105

    jimmie65
    Participant

    Nick –
    “If everyone on this board feels the way you Darth, Stevo, Stan, et.al. feel… then why are they all silent on the issue?  Shouldn’t they be running to the defense of their beloved board?  Or is it simply that they agree with us?”
    I’m curious about your reasoning. Why does silence indicate agreement with you rather than Mike, et al.?
    Perhaps silence indicates a lack of motivation to deal with pettiness. As it did in my case.
    A question: was change management a part of your BB training? If so, was “be a smart a**” and “try to p*ss off stakeholders” one of the lessons?
    If you don’t like what’s going on, get involved and change it.
    The posters you’ve targeted would not be first on my list of things that need to change. How about:
    1. Posters who don’t attempt to use grammer or punctuation
    2. Posters who ask vague questions and expect specific responses.
    3. Posters who do not bother to respond after getting an answer.
    4. Posters wasting time and energy of people who are trying to help others.
     
    I’m new to this forum but I’ve already learned a lot reading the responses, particularly from the handful of posters you mention. I’ve also tried to jump in and offer help where I feel I can. And I’m not going to bitch about the things I don’t like.
    Get your ego out of the way and perhaps you might pick up something.

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    #127106

    Random Observer
    Participant

    It’s ironic that you incorrectly spelled grammar in your post, don’t you think?

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    #127107

    Murray
    Participant

    If I hadn’t learned from this board myself I wouldn’t care who posted what.  
    I don’t think that everyone is on my side of the issue, but I do think that it’s pretty obvious that they people who aren’t on my side of the issue are making no points to support why they feel the way they do.  
    And why does everyone keep telling me to get involved and change what I don’t like…. does that get done by answering questions appropriately?  No, because others will still be jerks.   I have gotten involved by directly questioning the offenders. 
    The things that you have listed should be changed as well, but that list is not all inclusive. 
    Who is a stakeholder here?  And who is management?
    My ego is only in the way of those who act ill towards others.  It’s about as big as a tilde… but my contempt for people who needlessly attack others… well that is Space Bar sized…

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    #127108

    AB
    Participant

    Phil
    You said “I don’t have time to jabber with a bunch of keyboards or jockey for bragging rights for the best zinger”. Yet, that’s precisely what you’ve done.. Now you will go around bragging that you walked away from isixsigma.com to show to the world you’re different. Also you have neither answered anybody’s questions nor have you asked a subject matter question. The forum will not miss you.
    Good luck with the next flavor, next month. (BTW, a new website opened recently, called http://www.onesixsigma.com same concept but European site. Check it out).
    AB

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    #127109

    AB
    Participant

    Nick
    Why not let people fight their own battles? If you have a suggestion to improve this forum, you will have better luck  by using the User feedback area at the bottom of the left navigation bar on this website.
    Good luck.
    AB

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    #127110

    pancholi
    Participant

    Mike,
    I think you’ve finally lost it.  You and your buddies can not be reached with the written word.  You have so deluded yourselves with your constant attention to this written forum that you have no ability to recognize the validity of the obvious arguement of your detractors.
    What we are all saying is “shut up”, but the characters available on the keyboard don’t carry sufficient emphasis to penetrate the wax in your skulls.  DON’T post your “assessment of the worthiness of submissions”, we are saying.  We don’t care what you think.  Phil had a very valid criticism in the origin of this thread.  We see in response cheers from us many, and some democratish pap about freedom of speech and squatter’s rights from you few.  Do you HEAR yourselves?
    Why do you behave like this?  What could be your motivation?  I can only arrive at one conclusion.  Seems rather ironclad, and sad.  You have finally found a place you have sought all of your little lives – where you can rule without merit.  You can speak without being asked.  Not even furious pleading will make you go.  You are that kid everyone hates and desparately tries to ignore, but who will not leave.  Only a accountability-free format such as this could allow you to persist in this abuse.  Congratulations.  You have found the perfect venue.
    Here’s some insight: at your worst, and all too frequently, you’re grossly uninteresting.  Your knowledge and experience and ability cannot balance that.  There is no air freshener that can cover the stench of your written flatulence.
    We don’t want to go away.  We come here with noble intent.  We want YOU to keep your self-based and others-based assessments of post-ers to your self.  Take your own advice.  Ignore the idiototic pleas for help on test questions and the like.  But please stop disrupting what could otherwise be an informative site of civil exchange on a very rich field of study.
    Mike, you are usually a calming and informed influence on the high-edged smack that goes on here.  However, your posts in this thread would place you with the worst of offenders. 
    Get help. And for God’s sake, open your eyes to your behavior.
    Jen   

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    #127111

    Markert
    Participant

    Thanks, AB.  I’ll check it out.

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    #127112

    jimmie65
    Participant

    Note to self: always spell-check before posting…

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    #127113

    mZ
    Participant

    Phil in Cinci,
    After reading all the responses by Stan, Darth, and the like, have you made up your mind to stay or go? I guess the answer is obvious…
    Good luck with whatever you do.
    Mz

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    #127114

    Murray
    Participant

    “There is no air freshener that can cover the stench of your written flatulence.”
    That is by far the funniest thing I have read on here. 
    And on top of that Jen is right… (in general and in reference Mike).    And the worst part is that there are real professionals out there (in every sense of the word) who could improve this board.  They could provide much more help than Mike, Darth, Stan or all the others, but because this forum stinks so bad with ‘written flatulence’ they stay away.  If you think you are helping anyone with your comments (including yourselves) you are wrong. 
     
    Improve the board and keep ’em to yourselves

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    #127115

    AB
    Participant

    My goodness Jen. You scare me. That’s some sharp analysis. As someone else had mentioned, being a consultant for six sigma deployments and being MBB can be a lonely job and I feel that a certain degree of closed and compulsive behavior can arise from sustained loneliness; especially when you are perpetually challenging status quo to help others change their organizations. I can also validate your theory that there is so much widespread ignorance/confusion about six sigma that it is easy to come to this forum, help some people and get a sense of gratification.
    Oh my God…This is starting to sound like a bad story… I better go and talk to someone……..
    Ok… I just did and I’ve resolved to spend no more than 2 hours per week on this forum.
    Thanks a lot.
    AB

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    #127116

    Mikel
    Member

    Jen,
    What is your point?
    I must say that I am impressed that you speak for everyone. That is quite impressive BB skills to pull in everyone – I personally wouldn’t even know where to start.

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    #127118

    jimmie65
    Participant

     
    “I don’t think that everyone is on my side of the issue,”
    Actually, you implied quite the opposite – that everyone who kept silent was in support of you.
    “but I do think that it’s pretty obvious that they people who aren’t on my side of the issue are making no points to support why they feel the way they do.”
    Rereading through the thread, your point seems to be: A group of people tend to post smart a** responses, and they should stop. (If this is incorrect, please restate and summarize so we know what your point(s) are.) My point was: the best way to change things you don’t like is to do something, not complain. I’d be happy to post numerous references in the change management literature, if you want to dispute this point. (OK, I wouldn’t be happy to – but if you really have to argue the point, I’ll do what I can.)
    “And why does everyone keep telling me to get involved and change what I don’t like…. does that get done by answering questions appropriately? No, because others will still be jerks. I have gotten involved by directly questioning the offenders.”
    If the problem is smart a** responses, provide an alternative. Post something to answer someone’s questions. Telling others to stop do something is generally a waste of time and energy.
    “Who is a stakeholder here?”
    That would be the current users and potential users of the forum.
    “And who is management?”
    That would be the moderators.
    “Directly questioning the offenders” is really not a viable change management technique. For it to be viable, you would need either: 1) a relationship with the offenders; or 2) authority to enforce a change. You evidently have neither. Therefore I recommend you reconsider your strategy. At least one alternative has been suggested to you.

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    #127127

    Murray
    Participant

    Do you have a reason as to why Darth Stan et al. should treat people (no matter how far behind in the world of quality) the way they do?  Especially if the rules of this forum say it should not be done.  Does anyone else (besides Jen)?
    If not, posts in which you question my implications are meaningless to me.    Posts in which you question my quality knowledge are meaningless.  Posts in which you try to be a  jerk…. also meaningless. 
    I have called you all out on doing something that shouldn’t be done for the many reasons that I (and others) have listed before. 
    Your responses… well when you think about it… they aren’t really responses are they? 

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    #127130

    arthus
    Participant

    Thanks goodness Stan is here to impart his widown.   Get back to your on line dungeons and dragons game.

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    #127137

    HF Chris
    Participant

    Guys and Ladies,
    While everyone is buying their trophy (my input or lack of input is more better than yours) to place on their I love me bookcase, some people have actually posted valid questions. Funny thing is that many wide world of sports posters have not bothered to try to help anyone with a proper and polite answer. Am I missing the big picture in these posts?
    By the way, from a human factors point of view the nature of these posts is a common thread behind anonymous forums no matter what it represents. These types of mediums allow all to talk (good or bad), which allows some to express points of view that would have been drowned out in many public forums. This is what makes them work.
    Chris
     

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    #127138

    BTDT’s fan
    Participant

    After analyzing Phil’s problem by using DMAIC methodology, the statistical conclusion was made with 95% CI  – Phil, you’re out voted.BTDT’s fan

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    #127139

    Darth
    Participant

    Wow, this thread certainly deteriorated into the concern that Phil had in the first place.  In reviewing his initial post, Phil did raise some valid concerns.  I, along with others, tried to directly address the issues he raised.  I believe we were honest in our approach and supportive of some of his assertions.  Unfortunately, some negative misdirection occurred, specifically from Nick and then it was off to the races.  Since the owner of isixsigma has decided not to censor the Forum, except in severe cases of misuse, it has become pretty much a function of who speaks the loudest and who might have some credibility due to contributions over the long haul.  Phil your concerns are real but rather than bailing, getting defensive or criticizing, why not establish some credibility and influence.  That is the best way to move any group. 

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    #127140

    Forum Moderator
    Participant

    Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I think many have learned a great deal about tolerance and appreciation for differing thought, as well as the difficulty in clearly articulating opinion through written word.If anyone did not have the opportunity to voice their concern about the way this forum is run, please send your comments directly to me at https://www.isixsigma.com/mc. If you have suggestions for how to improve the discussion forum on iSixSigma, please also send your constructive criticism directly to me. If you would like to speak to me in person, please call 847-919-0922, x8855.May I suggest that we all spend our worthy efforts on educting those who care to learn about Six Sigma instead of this thread?Thank you, everyone, for your contributions. Every day I visit this discussion forum and am amazed at the level of discussion, sharing and knowledge possessed by business professionals around the world.Sincerely,Michael CygerFounder, iSixSigma.com

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